Joined: Mar 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 436 Location: Warszawa
OwlOwl's ancient story « Thread Started on Nov 1, 2006, 5:38am »
Ha, here we go. Ancient semifinals: LoD (Pirx, Stev, OwlOwl) vs LAW (Monoha, Beastmaster, GADA)
11. Knowing that Pirx and Stev are very close on north west i am
sending my mighty jags all other directions to spot and attempt to kill
whoever it will be.
Turn21. What a mistake it was
Everything is opposite then i expected. My jags find nothing but sea.
so many turns passed and i only just managed to discover Beast's
27. Finally my small stack is approaching Beast's city. Spotted a turn
before and being so late I don't really believe i can do something
here. Next turn my stack evaporates into air.
40. While Pirx reports " Heavy fights here with the Celt" i try to
catch up with others planting new cities. No hope we can do something
64. well lets try this. Overestimating Mono's and GADA's grow potential
i give up on growing and build my horseman stack hoping that will
Stev's Mounted warriors we can still do something here. At this time we
loose by 20 points. How i can do this? Beast seams to have eyes
74. Here we are. My stack of 20 horseman and about the same Stev's
stack prepare to hit Beast. But hey my mistake. Rushing too fast i hit
him 1 turn too soon. Stev needs one turn more. No wonder then our
stacks evaporate in the air within next 2 turns.
after this i realize that surprisingly I almost catch up with GADA on
points and so does Stev with Mono. Only Pirx's gap to Beast is
growing.We loose by 16 points and i still have some land to plant.
78. Go Owl go! I start building settlers like crazy. Barbs are busy too
killing one of them without mercy. Tik tak tik tak Time is running out.
7 turns to go and we are loosing by just 10 points.
80. One settler more to plant. We loosing by just 5 with me gaining
points with speed of light. Is it really true? We are going to win? At
that time Pirx is under a heavy siege by Mono and Beast.
82. I am planting the last settlers. Mono and GADA are watching from
their couraghs. Sorry guys u can do nothing now. Its 3 turn to go, Pirx
under attack and we are loosing by tiny 2 points !
Turn 83. Another Pirx's city attacked by Beast. Still cant believe but we are winning by 1 point . 2 turns left.
84. I am like maniac counting the points a few times to finally shout:
" Stev, Pirx, guys we WOOOOON" Stev answers: "Yuuuuuuupppiiiii". We
have 4 point advantage and the game is over. GG thanks ALL.
Hearing Mono's "good lack in the finals" i realize that we also might have won future or QC and are in THE FINALS.
Re: OwlOwl's ancient story « Reply #3 on Nov 3, 2006, 3:00am »
Beasts eyes ARE everywhere... yes, he puts up a good sentry net, before
building... to put someone more on the defensive and less growing,
plucking off them sentrys is often, as it is here, more valuable then
wasting an entire stack that just vanishes after all the turns wasted
conjuring it up.
was a goldmine... it was right at a bottleneck into your peninsula...
the early jags of yours going south east was an error in judgement if u
ask me... send one to make sure nobody is back there.... send the rest
to teohuatican and make that the hub of army while building east.
aztecs killing is conjured from the fact that they are cheap, you can
get an early GA, and horrendously outnumber ur early opponent who cant
keep us without an early GA (beast). so u find beast, send a few around
him to map it out... get GA, and make vet jags for 20 turns... i
guarantee that u can knock out a jag a turn from almost any size 3 city
(which all ur cities should be or will be by atleast half way thru your
GA). then after your GA is over... you build an army of settlers to go
east while ur disgusting numbers of jags goes to work on beast.
know it sounds easier then it is... but, if you had the correct number
of workers (1 1/2 for every city is a good approximate. 3 for 2 cities,
6 for 4, 9 for 6...ect ect.) you should have scored about 500-600.
with your rear cities building spears that would take longer to
complete then turns left in game, you should instead be building
warriors, or put the cities on wealth.
But, mission accomplished, congrats on the comeback and thanx for the story... good reading.
Joined: Oct 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 3,715 Location: Canada
Re: OwlOwl's ancient story « Reply #6 on Nov 3, 2006, 6:19am »
Yes and no. I am also an Aztec player who does not like the 2 city
GA/rush game. This being said the Aztecs have great civ abilities.
Aztecs is not always about the kill. If you are a "builder" then Aztecs
are also good. To show your jags is often enough to have opponents
"turtle up". You shows 3-4 jags on borders and make them disappear
elsewhere will at the very least slow down your opponent if not make
him stop growing all together. Who here would feel comfortable building
away and making granaries when you see 3-4 jags at your borders turn
18? What do I mean? That the greatest asset of the the player is the
intimidation factor. Tecs are the agricultural Zulu, the Inca with a
many Aztec players rely on the jags. I see it different. What makes
Inca so strong? It's UU? No way, too expensive. It is the Agri trait
and the hope that there is a horse near bye.
I play Aztecs much
the same. If you got a forest you can build a barracks while chopping a
forest tile. When the chop is finished you can "pop" a grain. What does
that mean? Well it means by the time you get to turn 5 you have a
capital with a barracks and a granary. This city will grow every two
turns!!! Anyone say workers!!! If someone is near by and I mean real
near you can invest into the early kill, if you you cant outgrow
him/her so that by the time you get GA you are ready to stomp the
world. In my opinion Aztecs are not always about the early kill. They
are about using "fright" to out grow/produce another. By showing your
UU you limit them to 2-3 cities ad thus when GA falls about you, it can
easily be a 7-8 town chariot upgrade game. No one can upgrade like
Aztecs. You can go wheel or you can go cheap Iron upgrade. It's only
rival militarily wise is Iroq with a quiet corner to develop in or Maya
all alone and unpressed.
Play the early Jag rush too much and
all you get is issues with gold/unit support. No the jag is not a
killer, it is an intimidator. The killer is Zulu cause it is both non
agri (which keeps yoru ciites from growing too quick and thus makes you
make units) and also expansionist civ (you often get a Pop settler with
Zulu because your cities are a bit smaller or slower growing.
absolutely love the ladder, my only troubles in it lie in the fact that
there is no time to think. Turns are fast, over in 90 turns so that
instinct often leads the way.
How many games do we finish with
2-3 workers because we got wrapped up in a heavy war? It's not like we
don't knwo we need 1.5-2 workers per town to have optimum production.
How many times do we flood a map for score? It's not like we don't know
that a standard map is best run with 12-13 cities. Emotions get the
best of us. Adrenaline get the best of us. It's one of the things that
makes Beasmaster so good. He is a cool cucumber. Ya gotta do something
irrational to beat him. He knows that for every 4 offensive units you
make he only needs 2 to defend. Leave him alone for 70 turns and he
will hit you with 90 gallics. I know because I used to play this way
before I got lazy
And I aint one of those guys who study saves. I simply enjoy building.
If I coudl i woudl build for 90 turns and only attack for a GA but that
is another matter. simply that a good builder with enough workers can
wastly outproduce a warmongerer. SImply math 7 good cities vs 3 good
ones. & will win even if he showed "weak to military advisor.
Becaue if war breaks out and push comes to shove then the numer of
cities is too grand and shiel levels are too high to compete. Yes some
days i get tired and need a kill. On those days I get 4-5 ciites up
well developped and upgrade 40 horses for a fast kill. But my most
rewarding games are the ones when you are alone for 60 turns, you get a
GA and make incredible amounts of units (200 plus easily with right
conditions). You kill all that come near you and steamroll one or two
civs late in the game. $-5 city GA turn 45 is more efficient for a
quick kill but by the time your GA is over you are losing incredible
amounts of gold because your unit support is too high.
What am I
getting at? This game is a game of emotions and that is what Aztecs do
best. Create emotons in it's opponents. I mean c'mon If someone showed
up with 20 warriors at your borders you wold laugh at them. You know
they are 1 attack and 2archers/2spears/2warriors or 4 spears will stop
any attack. No the fear is being double moved/pillaged by the freaky
green dudes. So simply show them to your neighbor and enjoy the growth
you can get from watching them "over protect".
in this world we are thrown like dog without a bone
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 751
Re: OwlOwl's ancient story « Reply #7 on Nov 3, 2006, 10:21am »
well inca and tecs near celts.......how he gets iron ....ohh off course he is beast
l think the mistake that u did was not coordianate attak!!! the tip in that case is easy: inca cut road and then came 15jugs that kill
About tecs l often take tecs and think that u must kill with tecs!!!! Tecs is usually 1th choise becouse they can kill..do u want points?take summer ....well
if u have no neighbour u can expand, tecs are good like another agri
civ but u lost the power of UU. Zulu are better kill after 30t cause u
cant destroy a stak of impy(u must wait that they attak, while u can
attak without prob a stak of jags)but for the first 30t u must fear jags
Re: OwlOwl's ancient story « Reply #8 on Nov 3, 2006, 5:28pm »
Errr, early ga means that mining bonus grass isnt exactly top priority.
well, he mined the suggar first than he built road and started to irrigate plains without having his GA...
yea, u guys could have coordenated attack. Saw that u showed the MW
stack before attack... So he could put all units on same city. If u
show stack, u attack on diff cities, or one stack goes for pillage
(like sdn said)
Re: OwlOwl's ancient story « Reply #9 on Nov 3, 2006, 6:05pm »
Its funny because the best course of
action is something people dont normally want to do..attack. Hopefully
you have found them right away, hopefully you can trigger a 1 or two
city GA it also allows contact so that your military advisor can give
you some insight as to what they are doing. It may backfire in that
they had targeted someone else and now a combination of showing
aggression and pissing them off has made you the "acquired" target
are Jag killers, problem is if the jags come real quick you cant match
their numbers by building archers right away, what I would normally do
is build warriors until the city produces an archer a turn then switch.
The other good reason for warriors instead of archers is if I have iron
those warriors get upgraded..then watch the green feathers fly.
check your adivsor...if you feel Jags are coming (advisor says they are
strong) build warriors/archers until either he hits you or the advisor
tells you hes avg or weak. If he isnt strong means he is using the
"threat" as a diversion...put your sentries up and ignor him.
rule I always had was if I got hit by a rush then I am going after him
at all costs for the rest of the game, two reasons, one he obviously is
weakend and two next game maybe he'll think it wise to rush someone
else, Ive gotten burned recently by this strategy, Cton games someone
always seems to stick their nose in your fight. they will wait around
for the battle to happen then swoop in "Civ Vultures" will hit my city
at the opposite end of the attack, kiss of death but it if he is going
to work the "implied" double team aint much you can do anyway.
Re: OwlOwl's ancient story « Reply #10 on Nov 3, 2006, 8:24pm »
Okay guys listen, the problem was, i moved my settler on hill before i plant cap. and bingo!!! i got iron in cap :P:P + good defense 2nd
i got wheat and floodplains+ gems. i had 10 prod at cap before 1st
"stack" of jags arrived. i had 2 vet archers + 3 spears in cap. no way
to rush me in that game. and i got tons of gold from sumer what i
needed to upgrade like 40 gallics in the whole game. but no enough luck and they won being bit better this time. was a really fun game. 1st one i wasnt really sad about losin that.
Joined: May 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 479 Location: Cologne, Germany
Re: OwlOwl's ancient story « Reply #13 on Nov 5, 2006, 9:38pm »
Hmm yes, it´s tempting with aztecs to build barracks and jags very
early and then you find yourself at turn 40 with 5 workers instead of
10-15. Teotihuacan would have been a perfect worker city with a
granary, 2 irrigated floodplains and agri bonus (but well you won
anyway ). I believe if cton had played in that game she would have had a good chance to kill him with her use of boats.